Then, putting some form of clear decisive controls on physical contact will handle most everything else.

That isn’t to over simplify things, because its never quite that simple. I tend to see most courtship as an over-correction to the obvious failures in the world’s approach to relationships. But that’s me, and I don’t fit the mold for most people.

To the other topic, as long as they recognize that “clean” has different definitions for different people. For me, it is defined as “Would I mind having visitors in here?” For my mother, it is “Can I eat off the surface?” Well, not quite, but seems that way some days.

I find that I tend to look down on people that I view as performing worse than I in a specific area and am embarrassed by people who perform better. That points out a critical problem in human nature: we define standards and levels of achievement by our own performance. If I perform well, so can you…. What it doesn’t reflect is the strengths that the other person brings to the table; strengths that might counterbalance our weaknesses.

Yeah, we should all try for more discipline as long as we recognize that this could mean different things for different people. Part of it has to do with what you value the most. Two people could have messy rooms. The one is lazy and the other busy. One can’t judge by the room, one must know the person. Did they make that clear then?

I agree, “I Kissed Dating Goodbye” was good but sadly lacking in application. “Boy Meets Girl” is the more helpful of the two books. But then, courtship is one application of “Do Hard Things” that probably needed the two-book treatment, to convince people that its a good idea. You have to get really specific when telling people that dating is a bad idea. (Anyone reading this comment who wants to understand those specifics from this female’s perspective, ask away). Alex and Brett have alot of examples of how to apply their principles in real life, both in the book and on thier website (where most of the book is posted in various and sundry blog entires, the most recent of which is a five-part series on this very topic, “small hard things”).

But some thoughts for you (and I haven’t read enough of their work to know if this is ludicrous or not).

Are Brett and Alex to “good” and to naturally gifted in self-discipline for them to be good role models? I’m naturally lazy and consequently see people who are super disciplined as role models who are “out of reach”, but I do have some level of self-discipline and am improving it through slow but deliberate efforts. For me, cleaning the house daily isn’t interesting or what I want to do. But, I do clean it (usually before it looks to badly). Is that a bad thing? I mean, we aren’t to do hard things just because they are hard right?

Is there any value in making the bed every day? Or should the room just be generally cleaned up (instead of spotless)?

How are “hard things” defined? Personally, getting out of bed and walking the dog at 6am is hard, but it gets done. For others, that might be murder. So who defines hard things? How do Alex and Brett define hard things?

What do they offer to help people get started? Telling me to “Do Hard Things” is akin to their brother’s “I Kissed Dating Goodbye.” It expressed a disastisfaction and frustration over a problem, but offered no solutions. It wasn’t until “Boy Meets Girl,” that Josh made progress in offering actionable items.

How does this book stand up?